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	<title>Comments on: Civilisation as a last resort..</title>
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	<link>http://nuvatsia.terevaden.net/2006/09/16/civilisation-as-a-last-resort/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Tere</title>
		<link>http://nuvatsia.terevaden.net/2006/09/16/civilisation-as-a-last-resort/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Tere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Sep 2006 07:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks! I'll read the paper asap. And thanks for the clarifications. I'm with you: we need a "progressless" and dispassionate view on civilization. The paradox being that in the West, at least, the abandonment of progress as a way of thinking seems to require some quite passionate disappointment with civilization.

Just one thing: couldn't one speculate that in places like South-America and India the urban model could effectively have been forgotten and re-invented?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks! I&#8217;ll read the paper asap. And thanks for the clarifications. I&#8217;m with you: we need a &#8220;progressless&#8221; and dispassionate view on civilization. The paradox being that in the West, at least, the abandonment of progress as a way of thinking seems to require some quite passionate disappointment with civilization.</p>
<p>Just one thing: couldn&#8217;t one speculate that in places like South-America and India the urban model could effectively have been forgotten and re-invented?</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Brooks</title>
		<link>http://nuvatsia.terevaden.net/2006/09/16/civilisation-as-a-last-resort/#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Brooks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>There is a more detailed paper on this topic than the one linked to here. This later publication, in "Quaternary International" (Vol. 151) can be downloaded from http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/~e118/publications/publications.html.  Or link to the publications page from my home page.

The point about not being able to "uninvent" technology refers to the fact that once people started living in complex, urban, state-level societies, these societies developed their own momentum. In some instances they collapsed, but the urban model has, for good or ill, endured. 

Perhaps by being more objective and dispassionate about "civilization", we can decide which aspects of it we would like to retain and which we would like to reject. A more deliberative approach to how we run our societies therefore might be facilitated by a rejection of the idea of the inevitability of "progress", and of the idea that human history is a story of effectively linear, if occasionally interrupted, progress and advancement. 

However, for humanity collectively to adopt a highly deliberative approach to how it interacts with the environment, based on a rejection of the idea of inevitable linear progress and manifest destiny, would require an unprecedented degree of agreement and cooperation at the global level.   I for one am not going to hold my breath waiting for this.

To suggest that we can't simply revert to previous ways of living is not necessarily the same as endorsing existing models!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a more detailed paper on this topic than the one linked to here. This later publication, in &#8220;Quaternary International&#8221; (Vol. 151) can be downloaded from <a href="http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/~e118/publications/publications.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/~e118/publications/publications.html</a>.  Or link to the publications page from my home page.</p>
<p>The point about not being able to &#8220;uninvent&#8221; technology refers to the fact that once people started living in complex, urban, state-level societies, these societies developed their own momentum. In some instances they collapsed, but the urban model has, for good or ill, endured. </p>
<p>Perhaps by being more objective and dispassionate about &#8220;civilization&#8221;, we can decide which aspects of it we would like to retain and which we would like to reject. A more deliberative approach to how we run our societies therefore might be facilitated by a rejection of the idea of the inevitability of &#8220;progress&#8221;, and of the idea that human history is a story of effectively linear, if occasionally interrupted, progress and advancement. </p>
<p>However, for humanity collectively to adopt a highly deliberative approach to how it interacts with the environment, based on a rejection of the idea of inevitable linear progress and manifest destiny, would require an unprecedented degree of agreement and cooperation at the global level.   I for one am not going to hold my breath waiting for this.</p>
<p>To suggest that we can&#8217;t simply revert to previous ways of living is not necessarily the same as endorsing existing models!</p>
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